We're All Fags in a Big Gay Argument

I'm talking like, the single most talented musician in history, and I am prepared to nominate Dr. Dre. His beats are out of this fucking WORLD. Like, untouchably good. He's also a spectacular rapper, but I think his talent really shines in his production abilities. The work he does with Eminem is fucking bone-chillingly good.

Thoughts? Nominations?

I don't know if I'd say Dr. Dre was the best ever. But I'd really have to think about this, it's a damn good question.

I can't think of anyone else who so reliably pumps out such amazing music. He's largely responsible for the beats in Snoop's music, his own, Eminem's, and a fuckload of others, and like 99% of them are fucking legendary.

That is a loaded question you have there, out of all Genres of music... i would honestly have to go wth Marley all the way. The reason behind this is: aside from being considered a legend... the guy died in 81, all of his music was early 60s and 70s, and his stuff is still played on mainstream music stations, and its fucking reggae at that. just let this soak in for a few minutes: Reggae / almost half a century old / still played on mainstream music staions. Fucking reggae!@#$#!!

Aside from all of this, he was fucking HxC - he died from cancer which could have been cured but he was like "fuck that, i would rather die than go against my morals/religion." how many musicians do you think would honestly die for what they preach and sing/rap about?

Sorry, Angel. Popularity != talent. Bob Marley is just generic reggae and I couldn't tell any of his songs apart if you muted the lyrics, nor would I want to.

Bob Marley is waaaaaaaaay better then you give him credit for. You just don't like to accept the fact that he is a "Legend" because you have this thing against Reggae. I'm not sure I would exactly cast my vote for him either, but sayin' he isn't even in the running is complete blaspheme.

A couple more facts about Bob Marley that you may not know:

-Marley was inducted into the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame in 1994.
-Time magazine chose Bob Marley & The Wailers' Exodus as the greatest album of the 20th century.
-In 2001, Marley was posthumously awarded the Grammy Lifetime Achievement Award

Again, I'm not sayin' he gets my vote, but to say his music is garbage in comparison to Dr. Dre is a completely bias opinion.

Of course it is completely bias opinion, this is all ABOUT opinion.

Also, the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame is just about the most worthless organization in the world. That they would induct someone who is not even a Rock and Roll artist should tell you that much, but if you want to learn more about why their opinions don't mean a damned thing, read this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rock_and_Roll_Hall_of_Fame#Criticism

P.S. I accept that he is a legend, but the majority of humans are mouth-breathing retards so popularity is irrelevant.

Well maybe the opinion of the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame doesn't mean anything, but then again, I've looked through your library several times and to take the opinion of someone with as much Alternative Rock in their arsenal as you kinda discounts your vote imo.

Not to say I'm almighty music guy, but I listen to a WIDE range of music and can actually appreciate the skill that it took to make the song because I'm not always hung up on lyrics or the mass social view of the Artist/Group. You sound like a lot of people I know, you have strong opinions and know some good stuff, but to really take your opinion on a subject that covers ALL genres of music, when you have as much of a stunted taste as the next "mouth-breathing retard" is kinda careless. Though I am aware this is just a small forum and vote between a couple friends, so it's not that important.

BUT ANYWAYS, here is my problem with voting for such people as Dr. Dre or Bob Marley.......They are Black. lol jk

Dr. Dre has a chicken/egg thing kinda goin', of course Eminem wouldn't be as great as he is without Dr. Dre and Snoop couldn't have done "Doggystyle" without him, but when you compare "his" songs/lyrics to either Eminem/Sometimes Snoop, he falls short. They all kind of need one another. And as good as Dre's songs are, I know there are plenty of other people/groups I'd rather listen to.

Bob Marley both sings and does lead guitar in all his songs. And I think he can do just fine with or without the Wailers in the background. But it is Reggae and the sound does get tiring after a long period of time, too much of the same.

And that's a problem most Rock/Metal has, as good as they are, after a while, all the songs kinda sound the same because it's always the same singer and the same instruments. But with Hip-Hop/Rap and Electronic music, it is very different sounding every time. And to make several really good songs with completely different sounds takes a hell of a lot more talent and gives it way more listen ability before becoming completely stale. That's actually the reason I listen to those Two Genre's most, they are the most diverse in sound.

90% of my music isn't tagged and thus doesn't register on my Last.fm account, so nice job jumping to conclusions you know nothing about. What the fuck is your problem? I'm not the only one who feels this way: you need to stop fucking acting like anyone who disagrees with you on trivial topics is a dumbass, it's getting stale. I don't deny he is legendary, and I don't deny that he is popular. I simply don't feel like his music is good on any level. Yup, that's opinion. Sorry.

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But with Hip-Hop/Rap and Electronic music, it is very different sounding every time. And to make several really good songs with completely different sounds takes a hell of a lot more talent and gives it way more listen ability before becoming completely stale. That's actually the reason I listen to those Two Genre's most, they are the most diverse in sound.

This sounds like you're agreeing with me.

EDIT: P.S. You don't like alt rock?

HisMajesty wrote:

90% of my music isn't tagged and thus doesn't register on my Last.fm account, so nice job jumping to conclusions you know nothing about.

So your listening history is completely incorrect meaning you aren't even being suggested Artist/Bands that really reflect what you listen to most. And it's not like the site is really that great for networking at all and you aren't a musician (that I know of). It's not even like the site is a good alternative to Pandora, why the fuck do you use Laft.fm? Sorry for coming to a conclusion that made perfect sense.

I'm only showing the same aggressiveness you always do. You come in with these strong opinions, often with good reason, but this time you don't realize how little your opinion means seeing as how you have left me and a couple others with this picture that represents your taste in music, which isn't really much. You hate EVERYTHING. TopHatCat brought up a truly good competitor for Dre, yet you toss the nomination to the side with ease simply because you hate Reggae. It's like Adam Sexler giving the latest FF game a 3 out of 5 just because he isn't a fan of RPG's, it's not a good critique. You're ignoring his musical genius just because you don't happen to like that genre.

Of course I know "personal taste" is going to come into play when making such a decision, but it's hard to swallow the opinion of someone on such a subject when they don't really seem to like most of it in the first place.

This is what I have gathered as your taste after several years:

NOTE: This may have changed by now, but as far as I know, this pretty much mirrors you opinion on music.

-You dislike most Metal
-You hate Reggae
-Knowing now how music affects your mood I would assume you aren't a fan of Emo/Screamo/Grunge/Blues/Most Indie and Underground Rap/Hip-Hop
-You don't like children singing
-You dislike most Rap
-You dislike high pitch singing so most Happy Hardcore/Female Vocalists are out
-You dislike Punk unless it's foreign
-You dislike Country (Who the fuck doesn't)
-You like Trance/House
-You dislike Weeaboo music except Haruhi
-You like Video Game Music
-You like a lot of Classic Rock/Alt. Rock
-You like Big Band/Jazz
-I don't take you for a Ska guy
-I've never seen you bump: Classical/Electronica/Electro/Turntablism/Real Hip-Hop/Trip-Hop OR any Artist/Group relatively unknown to the masses for that matter.

I mean seriously, what do you even like? Has this changed at all? To me it always seems like you listen to people that are already established Legends in the very few genre's you like. You are one of the most picky people I know and the fact you are hell bent on Dr. Dre being the Greatest Musician of all time when you don't really listen to much to begin with just seems extremely odd to me. But then again, maybe it's just me.

P.S.

Alt. Rock is the most generic and white sounding genre only second to country imo. Everybody and their Mom listens to that shit. There are very few Bands that stand out, all the rest of it sounds the same. Very Green Day-ish. And they suffer from the generic Band make-up: Guitar, Bass, Drums, and Singer that adds weird Whiny sound to his voice.

As of right now, I would have to say Marley > Dr.Dre.

gh05tf0x wrote:

It's not even like the site is a good alternative to Pandora, why the fuck do you use Laft.fm? Sorry for coming to a conclusion that made perfect sense.

Purely for the listening reporting. I didn't even know it did suggestions and shit.

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I'm only showing the same aggressiveness you always do. You come in with these strong opinions, often with good reason, but this time you don't realize how little your opinion means seeing as how you have left me and a couple others with this picture that represents your taste in music, which isn't really much.

News flash, none of our opinions mean shit, we have no clout in any industry or any field where clout can be had. I may be an aggressive arguer, but you are downright insulting and it's juvenile.

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You hate EVERYTHING. TopHatCat brought up a truly good competitor for Dre, yet you toss the nomination to the side with ease simply because you hate Reggae. It's like Adam Sexler giving the latest FF game a 3 out of 5 just because he isn't a fan of RPG's, it's not a good critique. You're ignoring his musical genius just because you don't happen to like that genre.

This isn't some formal nomination/vote/conclusion thing, I just put it out there to see how people felt. I disagreed with Angel, so I stated that, for me, I don't agree. That doesn't mean I think Angel should change his mind, I just don't agree. I can't stand the genre, yes, but I genuinely do not appreciate Marley's music. He was definitely a great guy and activist and whatever, I do not deny that, I just don't like his music, and I don't see the genius in it that others do.

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-You dislike most Metal

This is probably accurate. I don't know much metal. I like Tenacious D, naturally, and anything that sounds like them, but Tenacious D, to me, seems to lean more towards rock than most metal. When you're talking about metal that builds up to too much instruments going at once too quickly, yes, that I don't like.

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-You hate Reggae

Hate sounds active. I just don't like to listen to it, to the extreme.

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-Knowing now how music affects your mood I would assume you aren't a fan of Emo/Screamo/Grunge/Blues/Most Indie and Underground Rap/Hip-Hop

I love blues and grunge. I didn't say I wasn't a fan of downer music, I just prefer upper music. I love the fuck out of every last one of Eminem's depressing songs (I even recognize that they are mostly better, musically, than the goofier ones), I just don't listen to them as much. Emo/Screamo I know little about, but what I know of I definitely don't like. What indie/ug rap/hip-hop I've heard I've liked quite a lot, but I don't know much of it.

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-You don't like children singing
-You dislike high pitch singing so most Happy Hardcore/Female Vocalists are out

Both of these are things that were specific cases which I generalized jokingly. I also think both of these were things that I said pre-2007, and few of my opinions from before my 'socialization period' still hold true today. I like happy hardcore plenty, and female vocalists are fine, and even songs with vocals I consider kind of annoying (The Logical Song's high pitch vocals do, indeed, grate) I'll still listen to and appreciate for their other qualities.

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-You dislike most Rap

I don't know what you mean, exactly, by rap. If you mean hip pop (99% of hip hop music produced since 2000), then yes I hate the fuck out of it. I don't consider that shit to even be rap, however, since there's usually very few unique lines in those songs. If you mean anything that sounds like Dre, Snoop, Eminem, where it's a good beat underneath a talented rapper with well written lines, then I love that. If you mean stuff like Nas, I definitely respect him as an artist and especially as a writer; he is great, but his music tends to be more focused on the vocals and less on beats. It's good, but I don't prefer to listen to it as much.

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-You dislike Punk unless it's foreign

I'm not sure where you got this idea. I don't know too much punk, but I like old Green Day, I love The Offspring, I love the Ramones, I love Social Distortion, I like the Sex Pistols. Can't think of anything else, but I'm sure there's plenty more. Actually, I think the Sex Pistols are British, but whatever.

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-You dislike Country (Who the fuck doesn't)

I love old country, like Johnny Cash style. Modern country is unbelievably formulaic and bad.

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-You like Trance/House
-You like Video Game Music
-You like a lot of Classic Rock/Alt. Rock
-You like Big Band/Jazz

Yes.

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-I don't take you for a Ska guy

I know absolutely nothing about Ska. I couldn't even name a single Ska band, or song, and I don't even know what instruments/styles are typically involved. Ska is completely alien to me.

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-I've never seen you bump: Classical/Electronica/Electro/Turntablism/Real Hip-Hop/Trip-Hop OR any Artist/Group relatively unknown to the masses for that matter.

Classical as in like Mozart and shit? I love that stuff. Electronica/Electro/Turntablism I am certain I love, but I'd need examples of them to know. I don't know genre names particularly well, and I tend to simply lump all electronica-type genres together (techno/trance/electronic/etc.) as a "like very much" genre.

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To me it always seems like you listen to people that are already established Legends in the very few genre's you like. You are one of the most picky people I know and the fact you are hell bent on Dr. Dre being the Greatest Musician of all time when you don't really listen to much to begin with just seems extremely odd to me. But then again, maybe it's just me.

You're right in that I don't go digging around for indie or underground music. While I love music, I do not have the patience for that. I tend to prefer getting recommendations from friends I'm not sure where you're getting that I am hell bent on anything; I'm really not that passionate about anything, let alone simple conjecture on who has talent.

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Alt. Rock is the most generic and white sounding genre only second to country imo. Everybody and their Mom listens to that shit. There are very few Bands that stand out, all the rest of it sounds the same. Very Green Day-ish. And they suffer from the generic Band make-up: Guitar, Bass, Drums, and Singer that adds weird Whiny sound to his voice.

Alt rock is definitely generic, I agree, and generally bad, though I think there is definitely MUCH more bad music than good music in ALL genres. There are definitely some undigested gold nuggets in the diarrhea of alt rock, however. Audioslave, Soundgarden, Nirvana, R.E.M., Jane's Addiction, Pearl Jam, RHCP (though RHCP is pretty fucking stale at this point), Stone Temple Pilots, The Strokes, The Killers, NIN, Foo Fighters. Mostly stuff from the 90s.

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If you mean stuff like Nas, I definitely respect him as an artist and especially as a writer; he is great, but his music tends to be more focused on the vocals and less on beats. It's good, but I don't prefer to listen to it as much.

I'm not sure what you think rap REALLY is then. I don't know maybe it's just me but rap is more focused on the vocals, then it should be the beat. The beat is just there to accompany the style of flow or "rhythmic vocals." Of course majority of rap now a days consist of ass, titties, 24 inch wheels, bling. and etc. but it doesn't change the fact that RAP is really about the vocals. Shit, I could listen to freestyles all day and not get tired of it because it's so genuine and so intact with each persons style, but a beat forces someone to go out of that style and try things that make them sound even better or just utter fucking shit.

To compare Marley to Dre is a total waste of fucking time and I don't even LIKE Bob Marley that much. If you want to compare an actual musician to a producer that is retarded. Now if you want to compare producer to producer how about I throw out this name then, Timbaland.

What artist now wouldn't LOVE to work with Timbaland? He has infact produced a shit load of artists in the 90's and even now. Timbaland is genuine and no doubt one the best producers in the world.

But then again, this thread is about Musicians.

How isn't a producer a musician?

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I'm not sure what you think rap REALLY is then. I don't know maybe it's just me but rap is more focused on the vocals, then it should be the beat. The beat is just there to accompany the style of flow or "rhythmic vocals." Of course majority of rap now a days consist of ass, titties, 24 inch wheels, bling. and etc. but it doesn't change the fact that RAP is really about the vocals. Shit, I could listen to freestyles all day and not get tired of it because it's so genuine and so intact with each persons style, but a beat forces someone to go out of that style and try things that make them sound even better or just utter fucking shit.

If, then, the difference between rap and hip hop is that rap is more freestyle with low emphasis on beats and hip hop is the opposite, then yes, I prefer hip hop. I can and do enjoy listening to freestyles and stuff like Nas, but I don't prefer it and prolonged exposure tends to bore me.

I also think it takes a certain type of talent to be able to write good, genuine lyrics around a good beat (i.e. Eminem's stuff, especially The Eminem Show).

P.S. Timbaland is definitely a good producer, but he lacks standards with who he'll work with, and his beats, to me, feel more like hip pop than Dre's.

It seems to me that you don't have a grasp on music, let alone certain sub-cultures of music itself. Also Timbaland will work with people who have talent not like Scott Storch who will work with any dumb artist who can say shit about 24 inch wheels or how much money they don't actually have. I never said Timbaland was a rap producer, he's actually produced many type of music rap/hip-hop/RnB/Pop and so forth.

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How isn't a producer a musician?

From what you are saying, you aren't basing Dre on how good he is as a musician but able to produce artists and such. There are a dime a dozen of these kind of people in the music industry but they're not called "musicians."

Honestly, give me detailed answers on how Dr.Dre would be even deemed worthy of "Most Talented Musician?"

And if you are going to base him off his production value, then I shall nominate DJ Hixxy, a man who basically started a sub-genre of electronic music and it is now considered its own genre.(Happy Hardcore) He produced basically majority of the Happy Hardcore DJ's and songs.

When he makes the music that Eminem raps to, he is being a musician, no?

EDIT: And what the fuck is with the fucking hostility in this fucking thread? Fuck off with it already.

You are solely basing your opinion on his ability to make beats for eminem, snoop, and such. That shows me that he isn't worthy for the title. What about his rap career? What was so good about that? Besides a couple of his songs and maybe a couple out of the N.W.A era but even then he wasn't that great with flows. But yet you bring down an actual music legend? What has Dre accomplished that Marley hasn't?

Your closed minded opinion on music brings the hostility, of course each person has there own type of genre they like. But when you ask a question about the "Most Talented Musician" it's going to cause controversy, especially when you know little about music or that type of genre you are nominating.

In all, I've posted this before and I will repeat it, musician wise Marley over Dre any day.


EDIT: OF course when being pushed on a subject where people do actually have an opinion and don't agree with you, you turn gay. For Example: changing the thread name.

Just take it and deal with it. Don't be gay.

That's perfectly fine, you're entitled to your opinion all you like, I don't give a fuck. You like Marley, fine. I don't. In what sense does this bring on hostility? I'll be as "closed minded" as I fucking want, if I'm not being a dickhead there's no reason for you to be one yourself, huh?

More importantly of all is your presumption that your opinion is more valuable than mine here, or anywhere. The grim reality is that both of our opinions are equally worthless.

I made this thread as a spur of the moment, ganj-induced impulse because I was listening to a bunch of Dre's music and got over-excited. How you can claim to be such a big fucking music master without even being able to realize that this question is impossible to answer, because "talent" is immeasurable, and then attack me for no reason other than I dislike Bob fucking Marley, who you yourself claim not to like, is a fucking mystery to me. Newsflash: this thread is fucking retarded in concept and practice, so why the fuck are you taking it so goddamned seriously?


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EDIT: OF course when being pushed on a subject where people do actually have an opinion and don't agree with you, you turn gay. For Example: changing the thread name.

Just take it and deal with it. Don't be gay.

Again, you are taking this too seriously. Changing the thread name was an attempt to lighten the fucking mood and put to rest the idea the question is even answerable, and you turn it into a "OMG U R SO GAY WTF" serious thing again. Maybe if I named it "Justin and gh05tf0x are gay", you'd have a case, but I included myself in the "insult", so fucking cool it.

If I was being a dick, I think I would've phrased it a bit differently. Honestly, no one is attacking you. We are just stating our opinion and just responding to your comments. If you can't seem to grasp that then maybe you shouldn't make these "ganj-induced" threads eh?

I like talking about music and such. This topic just showed me that you can't take other peoples opinions because you get panties in a wad because we come off "hostile." I'm being real as can be when talking about this and it seems to offend you.

P.S You haven't given me reasons what's so good about Dre. :]

Smokey wrote:

I like talking about music and such. This topic just showed me that you can't take other peoples opinions because you get panties in a wad because we come off "hostile." I'm being real as can be when talking about this and it seems to offend you.

Yeah, kinda like that, I don't know where you are getting all this "Hostility" bullshit from. Texas gone turned your ass soft. If I were tryin' to attack you via text over the internet, trust me, you'd know when I was seriously pissed off. But being a resident oldfag I know better. Using curse words only emphasizes how rooted in our opinion we are, that tis all.

BOTTOM LINE:

Dr. Dre Solo, not the greatest rapper ever, not even the greatest DJ ever. He does good collaboration work. (Eminem, Snoop, etc.)

Bob Marley Solo, Fucking Legend.

Make sense?

And like Smokey said, you wanna talk Producers, DJ Hixxy has just about all of them beat if you really think about it.

I'm not talking about the cursing.

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Well maybe the opinion of the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame doesn't mean anything, but then again, I've looked through your library several times and to take the opinion of someone with as much Alternative Rock in their arsenal as you kinda discounts your vote imo. Rolling Eyes

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you have as much of a stunted taste as the next "mouth-breathing retard"

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It seems to me that you don't have a grasp on music, let alone certain sub-cultures of music itself.

This is hostility, buddies. I also am referring to the overwhelmingly serious direction you two seem to be trying to take this thread.

I see what happened here, what would usually play out as a regular argument about trivial bullshit, which often happens on our forums from time to time, has become a gay bashing.

I don't know what happened to you there, maybe you got touched behind the Port-o-potty's at the NIN concert or something, but you better knock this shit off. When you come back to visit, we are gonna have to de-pussify you.

More importantly, is that I've been trying to steer this as hard as I can towards fucking dropping it altogether.

Miscommunications happen in text, buds. Especially when you haven't spoken to the person vocally in some time, and have forgotten their mannerisms.

What I'm trying to say is I miss j/oing with you guys 8'[

And we miss Jacking Off with you too.