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Thinker
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PostSubject: Cataclysm   Fri Aug 21, 2009 7:43 pm

So, the rumors were completely true. Cataclysm is real. I have to say, Blizzard is fucking GENIUS. Just when people are getting bored of the game in a core sense, they fucking completely remake it. Fucking genius, man.

http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/cataclysm/media/?autoplay=true#video

Aion's got SHIT on this.
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PostSubject: Re: Cataclysm   Fri Aug 21, 2009 8:12 pm

How is this better then Aion? Serious question.

For some reason I was highly under enthused by that trailer.

Are there some new key features in it that aren't really explained in the trailer?

The new classes (kinda lame imo) and going back to a fucked up Azeroth just doesn't sound ground breaking to me.

Is there a list somewhere?

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PostSubject: Re: Cataclysm   Wed Aug 26, 2009 5:57 am

Yeah you can see all the MAIN shit they are changing here:
http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/cataclysm/features/

They always make other tweaks and might even add to that list in the coming months.

I am kinda bummed that the level cap only goes up five, yet glad I only have to gain 5 levels when the game comes out. I think my overall decision will be based on the release. If it comes out fairly soon I can accept the 5 levels. If its going to be a late 2010 -2011 release I am disappointed.

I have always been a fan of Goblins joining the Horde. You all know this from my Gnome fetish.

I want a new class and/or a new Hero class. The specifically said there wont be a new hero class for this expansion because releasing a new class changes the game dynamic drastically.

Certain classes can be things they couldn't before which is kinda of cool. Tauren Paladins?

Archeology. Yay, I can dig shit out of the ground.

As for the expansions idea, I think its grand but not for an expansion. This is what we have been talking about for a long time. A game were the world changes as you play. For an expansion the idea just kinda seems lazy. Hey let me boot up the editor and tweak all the old places a bit and mix in a few dash's of new shit to appease the masses. This would have been an awesome patch but makes for a mediocre expansion at this point.

After seeing the vids that gh05tf0x and Erik showed me, I am still more amped for Aion.
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PostSubject: Re: Cataclysm   Wed Aug 26, 2009 3:59 pm

Paradox wrote:
As for the expansions idea, I think its grand but not for an expansion. This is what we have been talking about for a long time. A game were the world changes as you play. For an expansion the idea just kinda seems lazy. Hey let me boot up the editor and tweak all the old places a bit and mix in a few dash's of new shit to appease the masses. This would have been an awesome patch but makes for a mediocre expansion at this point.

After seeing the vids that gh05tf0x and Erik showed me, I am still more amped for Aion.


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PostSubject: Re: Cataclysm   Wed Aug 26, 2009 6:33 pm

Mark my words, in a few months Aion will be in the same boat as WAR.
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PostSubject: Re: Cataclysm   Thu Aug 27, 2009 3:06 am

I must be slipping on my vidiyagames. What is WAR? Did you mean Warhammer Online?
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PostSubject: Re: Cataclysm   Thu Aug 27, 2009 6:59 am

Yeah, I didn't know what he meant either, I assumed Warhammer as well.

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PostSubject: Re: Cataclysm   Thu Aug 27, 2009 10:09 am

Yes that's what people call it.
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PostSubject: Re: Cataclysm   Thu Aug 27, 2009 7:32 pm

There are several things wrong with this ex-pac and I shall explain why it is a washed out version of what was once a good game and is simply an effort to stop true gamers from switching to a better game Aion.

Firstly, I'd like to start by saying all of you know I'm a huge WoW guy. I've played it since beta and was actually allowed to play it when I went to blizzard 2 years before the game was even announced (which I guess is pre-alpha?), as well as ghost. Blizzard in my mind will always be one of the top game makers if not the top, bar none.

So, I think that this game is purely a cosmetic makeover of old shit because bliz is scrambling to release this by JAN, yep JAN. "LOLOL what crack are you smoking E-req, this game can't be out by then, they haven't even finish the Wrath story" Exactly, bliz said themselves that this expac WILL BE RELEASED BEFORE WE SEE ICECROWN. "Released before Icecrown, which means I have to sit in Northrend even after a new Xpac?" Yep, the game was fast tracked to top priority over all other games including SC2 and D3, because Metzen saw Aion as such a threat to thier MMO dominance, especially after seeing how Aion destroyed WoW's Korean fan base.

1) Purely a cosmetic makeover to push "new" content out the door.

Secondly, this Xpac represents the complete death of WoW lore. Combined with the destruction of it in wrath (killing of dragon aspects does in fact rip thier gift from the mortal races IE no Malygos no arcane knowledge = no mages. This xpac goes even further seeing as how you and your raid will most likely be killing Deathwing, another dragon aspect. Combined with the fact that you can no play any Race/Class combo completely destroys lore even more (just like Horde Paladins and Alliance Shamans, OFC) I'm Tuarans should not be allowed to play rogues/priest/paladins. They are a SHAMANISTIC race and priest/pallys practice Holy/God magic, and the rogue one is obvious. I realize that this is a rather small point but when put into perspective of "World Of Warcraft prizes its self on its lore and story base" (or at least it did when the game was good), then this should be a more huge of an issue then it is currently.

2) The Death of WoW is Caused by the Death of Lore

Thirdly, this xpac still doesn't address the flaws that are in WoW, and the Dev team continues to make worse. As you try to balance a game to please the bads, this is then multiplied when you add it to a more skilled player (I'm directing this a PvP because PvE is completely skill less, even more so in Wrath). Which is where almost all of the balance problems come in. If you take a look at the normal WoWForum poster, and those who QQ, you began to notice things like, almost none of them are over 1400 (Challenger titles {lowest arena title} started at 1600 this season). Where as when teams started at 1500(lvl70) vs 0(now) challenger title literally required you win 10 games and stay at around 1550(so hard?). Next you begin to notice that they lack any knowledge of thier own class let alone ALL THE OTHER CLASSES. Its due to this that the game has now moved from its "chess" like arena to "LOL OMG ZERG WITH ALL MY CDS" (And yes I'm good at WoW, I was the 7th highest rated player in the world, and the highest Hunter). This is not fixed in this xpac, which it should be. GG Blizzard you lose to NCSoft.

3) The game is fatally flawed and will rip its self apart because of the developers attitude and the direction that they are choosing to take this game.

These three reasons combined with so many other small ones like the fact that WoW is 5 years old and completely stale now, among others + the released of the most
anticipated MMO ever, Aion, (which already won game of the year PRE-RELEASE) make this xapc even less satisfactory.

EDIT: Ya, HisMajesty, except WAR/AoC actually sucked where as Aion doesn't? Aion will win simply because the game is so god damn inventive and revolutionary.
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PostSubject: Re: Cataclysm   Thu Aug 27, 2009 7:50 pm

Drake01 wrote:
So, I think that this game is purely a cosmetic makeover of old shit because bliz is scrambling to release this by JAN, yep JAN.

Lol, what? Source?

Quote :
1) Purely a cosmetic makeover to push "new" content out the door.

Yes purely cosmetic except for, you know, the whole part where all the quests are being thrown out and replaced with entirely new content.

Quote :
2) The Death of WoW is Caused by the Death of Lore

lolore

Quote :
3) The game is fatally flawed and will rip its self apart because of the developers attitude and the direction that they are choosing to take this game.

You're wrong. The hardcore playerbase they lose is microscopic compared to the casual playerbase they receive in DROVES. It's a worthy trade-off, because nobody likes those guys who take the game that seriously anyways. And when everyone is capable of doing the Heigan dance without dying (which is an insanely easy thing to do), you can tell me PvE requires no skill.

Quote :
the released of the most
anticipated MMO ever, Aion

Lol. In 6 months, you're going to come back to this thread and you're going to eat your words one by one. I'm not saying it might not be a good game, but you seriously need to cut the hyperbole because when it is relegated to having a microfraction of the subscriber base as WoW, without any hope for catching up, you will be pretty embarrassed.
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PostSubject: Re: Cataclysm   Fri Aug 28, 2009 11:27 pm

Umm, everyone is capable of doing that dance without dieing, most deaths happen because of client-server lag, and if you knew anything most people got that achievement the first couple weeks of Naxx, including the 25man one. Yes, PvE requires no skill, go back to your 25 mans carebear.

The opening video says it itself "During the continued fight against the lich king" and since blizz has said they wanted IC crown PH1 to come out by Feb-March of 2010

Lore is what made WoW a good game, its what people like about this game. Its what Dev's put 90% of their time into. Every instance, every quest, and every dialog/cut scene is based in lolore. So, you kill it, you kill what lot of people played WoW for.

And no, Wrath has made a lot more people "hardcore" high end raiding/arena is at a all time high. You also fail to realize the money WoW gets for having arena in MLG/CGS/WCG from all the advertising dollars. Those players stop playing arena and the sponsors stop picking up new teams = no arena competitions = no add dollars. So your "minuscule" number is FAR greater then you think it is.

HisMajesty, if you had played in any of the betas for Aion you'd know that what I'm talking about isn't an exaggeration. Secondly, I would never want Aion to have anywhere near the large player base WoW has, why? Because with more players there is more bads, with more bads there is more QQ, with more QQ the game is less fun/balanced. Id be happy with 3-5million which is easily done(I saw a pre-order count somewhere already, I'll try and find it again)

And Yes, because adding lava/water/forests/cliffs/cyclones to old shitty zones and a few quests(yes a few, cause they are splitting the zones and keeping the old quests and making new ones for 80-85) is completely cosmetic. "Hey guys we have no idea how to balance our own game or how to right the code for abilities to work properly so we will just throw shiny shit at you like GUILD ACHIEVEMENTS" The ex-pack fixes NONE of the problems that are in this game ranging from the combat system to class imbalances.
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PostSubject: Re: Cataclysm   Sat Aug 29, 2009 12:07 am

Drake01 wrote:
Umm, everyone is capable of doing that dance without dieing, most deaths happen because of client-server lag, and if you knew anything most people got that achievement the first couple weeks of Naxx, including the 25man one. Yes, PvE requires no skill, go back to your 25 mans carebear.

The opening video says it itself "During the continued fight against the lich king" and since blizz has said they wanted IC crown PH1 to come out by Feb-March of 2010

Lore is what made WoW a good game, its what people like about this game. Its what Dev's put 90% of their time into. Every instance, every quest, and every dialog/cut scene is based in lolore. So, you kill it, you kill what lot of people played WoW for.

And no, Wrath has made a lot more people "hardcore" high end raiding/arena is at a all time high. You also fail to realize the money WoW gets for having arena in MLG/CGS/WCG from all the advertising dollars. Those players stop playing arena and the sponsors stop picking up new teams = no arena competitions = no add dollars. So your "minuscule" number is FAR greater then you think it is.

HisMajesty, if you had played in any of the betas for Aion you'd know that what I'm talking about isn't an exaggeration. Secondly, I would never want Aion to have anywhere near the large player base WoW has, why? Because with more players there is more bads, with more bads there is more QQ, with more QQ the game is less fun/balanced. Id be happy with 3-5million which is easily done(I saw a pre-order count somewhere already, I'll try and find it again)

And Yes, because adding lava/water/forests/cliffs/cyclones to old shitty zones and a few quests(yes a few, cause they are splitting the zones and keeping the old quests and making new ones for 80-85) is completely cosmetic. "Hey guys we have no idea how to balance our own game or how to right the code for abilities to work properly so we will just throw shiny shit at you like GUILD ACHIEVEMENTS" The ex-pack fixes NONE of the problems that are in this game ranging from the combat system to class imbalances.

Quoted so you can't edit your post in 6 months when you realize how naive you were being. You've got stars in your eyes because it's a new game. Let it simmer.

EDIT: I'm not trying to suggest the game will be bad. I'm just saying, you keep calling it a WoW killer, when WoW will always have this game beat by a longshot in income. It will not kill WoW.
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PostSubject: Re: Cataclysm   Sat Aug 29, 2009 12:58 am

WoW Killer = Game that is 10 times better then WoW /end thread. Btw would be kinda hard to come back to WoW considering i have several buyers for my ACC.
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PostSubject: Re: Cataclysm   Sat Aug 29, 2009 12:59 am

No, WoW Killer means "Game that ends WoW's reign over MMO's." As WoW was the EQ Killer.
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PostSubject: Re: Cataclysm   Sat Aug 29, 2009 1:25 am

WoW killer is a game that is recognized by the gaming community as better, which is what Aion will be and is already considered that by a large part of the online gaming community

Edit: And WAR sucked.
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PostSubject: Re: Cataclysm   Sat Aug 29, 2009 11:45 pm

Im not trying to get in the middle of your guys' fight cause its stupid. But a WoW Killer means that the game will have more subscribers than WoW. Or that around half of the subscribers leave WoW for Aion or whatever game might be considered a WoW killer. This change doesn't have to be instantaneous but its needs to occur at most in the first year of release.
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PostSubject: Re: Cataclysm   Sat Aug 29, 2009 11:59 pm

Paradox is spot on. WoW will always be significantly more successful than this game. The only way to measure how good something really is, is by vote, and more people, obviously, vote for World of Warcraft.
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PostSubject: Re: Cataclysm   Sun Aug 30, 2009 7:51 pm

Would help if you cast your vote once it actually comes out, second no it doesn't have to happen in the first year of the game. WoW recently just reached 11million after 5 years and in the first 2 years of the game it barely reached 4. And know, a game can clearly be better than another game more people play especially in MMOs because of time investment. A lot of people wont want to switch because of the 5 years they have in WoW. So, Aion could actually be a lot better then WoW, but that is off the original topic that is Cataclysm is gonna suck and is a completely cosmetic makeover, GG. /endthread
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PostSubject: Re: Cataclysm   Thu Sep 03, 2009 2:03 am

HisMajesty wrote:
Paradox is spot on. WoW will always be significantly more successful than this game. The only way to measure how good something really is, is by vote, and more people, obviously, vote for World of Warcraft.


"And that's politics. " -Always Sunny



Edit- Everyone knows what I'm waiting for. I just watched the episode that's why I said quotes from it.
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PostSubject: Re: Cataclysm   Thu Sep 03, 2009 4:57 am

Drake01 wrote:
And know, a game can clearly be better than another game more people play especially in MMOs because of time investment. A lot of people wont want to switch because of the 5 years they have in WoW.

This statement just killed your argument.

Erik I am not trying to argue with you. Let me repeat that so we are perfectly clear, Erik I am not trying to argue with you. I am in no way supporting WoW and I do in fact hope Aion rules as much ass as you think it will. Just hear me out and keep on open mind. Also "I am not trying to argue with you."

Aion could be the greatest game to ever grace the face of the earth, but if no one plays it and everyone stills plays WoW then its not a WoW Killer. In order to be a WoW Killer the game must either beat WoW in subscribers or cut the number of WoW subscribers drastically. Your whole point to start was that Aion would be a WoW Killer but if it doesn't beat WoW than how can it be deemed a WoW Killer. I gave the year stipulation cause you came off in one of your previous posts with such conviction that Aion would obliterate WoW. So in order to assure that loss in subscriber base can be mostly attributed to Aion and not other games/MMO's or boredom there is a year long time period for Aion to earn the title WoW Killer.

Also a games quality, especially en mass (ie MMO), is judged by the number of people who play or subscribe to that game. Look at the original SWG for example. I thought that was the greatest and still is the greatest MMO I have ever played. I see all the time in videos, reviews, and documents of games to come with ideas that stem from SWG's greatness. But ask anyone else and they will tell you that game is a piece of shit. It was a little to un user friendly and indepth for most people.

None of this is saying that Aion wont be a great game or that it wont be the game of the year or the decade or whatever. All this is doing is A) showing you that your argument is slightly skewed and B) that you need to be careful when you throw words like WoW Killer around. Who know Aion could be so great that it decimates WoW and the entirety of its fan base converts to Aion. I think that last scenario is highly unlikely but still anything is possible.

Aion looks like a fantastic and solid game with new and original ideas, especially for an MMO. The most likely of scenarios is that Aion will be more successful than any of its predecessors(AoC, WAR, etc) in challenging WoW for dominance of nerd's game time. The two games will probably end up coexisting with each other as Aion is new, exciting and great, and WoW is just to solidly grounded in today's video game culture. Most people can afford to have an acount with each game and to be honest WoW has become so popular that it has sewn it self in the very fabric of our society. People nowadays when they here the word "wow" even if they don't play or are old will still know its a reference to a video game and not just an expression.

Also to say your never going back to WoW or swear off WoW forever in my opinion is a little stupid. I have put in way to much time and effort into my characters to let the die off and never be played again. I think i am still going to pay for a month every once and while, I am sure we all will. Especially when new expansions come out as that's when the game is the best.
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PostSubject: Re: Cataclysm   Sun Sep 06, 2009 9:57 pm

Firstly, to answer the thread, Cataclysm is still going to blow massive dicks. Secondly, its still to my belief that even if Aion doesn't make it in a year, at 2 years after WoW is done with its expac's and there is a gap between WoW and the new MMO Aion will pick and it will never get as many people as WoW simply because its style is much more korean and farming based then WoW.
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PostSubject: Re: Cataclysm   Mon Sep 07, 2009 12:02 am

"its style is much more korean and farming based then WoW."

This is why I stopped playing at the beta and haven't really considered going back. Regarding the rest of your post: We shall see...
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PostSubject: Re: Cataclysm   Wed Sep 16, 2009 10:30 pm

Ya, but thats what makes the end game fun, because gear doesn't matter in terms of power and is much more "statusy", but it will provide that edge over someone who is equally skilled in your class as you. Unlike WoW where gear is free and completely over powering.
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